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Archiver > PACE > 2003-05 > 1052241004


From: "Roy Johnson" <>
Subject: Re: [PACE-L] John of Middlesex
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 12:10:13 -0500
References: <LOBBLHDGJEPNIJEICNFLKEDPDLAA.jon.pace@mindspring.com> <000401c313ee$ca267cd0$e96d550c@brat>


A further point--if any ONE of group 2 can document by hard evidence that
there is descent from John of M, then this would be extremely strong
evidence that all in that group are descended from John, (although not
proof -- they could be descended from a cousin, uncle, or other relative of
John--but at least is shows that they were probably related to John). I am
supposedly a Joseph descendent but I have only had time to document five of
the eight generations back to John of M. We need to look at the
documentation of each line to sort out where there could be problems and
where it is solid. If we can get just one solid line that is beyond
reasonable doubt, then we have strong evidence for all.

Roy


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy Johnson" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [PACE-L] John of Middlesex


> Jon, you are right. But I see a positive side to the speculation also.
> They have noted some other similarities, such as given names, which also
are
> significant. The given names of the Shropshire Paces show many
commonalities
> with the children of John of M but not with the children or Richard II.
> This is not proof positive but it is added evidence to strengthen (but
> strengthen does not mean prove) the connection to John of M.
>
> So it is wise to continue to look at the Shropshire Paces to see if there
is
> a good candidate for John of M, and to pursue that trail by seeking
> documentation. This is the main purpose of DNA -- to point, not to
prove --
> and to give directions worth pursuing as we research the documents.
>
> This is a very valid point, and thanks for bringing it up. The point is,
> all remains speculative until (a) we find documentary evidence one way or
> the other, or (b) we have many more submissions to go by.
>
> I hope the Pace Society report this summer brings us many more
submissions.
> And I think this surprise matchup proves my earlier point that the wider
we
> can cast our net, the better. There were some who wanted to only pursue
> John of M and Richard descendents only until we solve that problem, but
> since we don't know for sure who John of M is, it is wise to get as many
> submissions as we can from as wide a background as possible, as we never
> know who may turn out to be related.
>
>
> Roy
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Pace" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:42 AM
> Subject: RE: [PACE-L] John of Middlesex
>
>
> > The speculation about possible new knowledge about a potential origin
and
> > lineage for John of Middlesex is interesting but may be premature. Has
> anyone
> > considered the following?
> >
> > The DNA results obtained to-date seem to show a group of four (4) who
> share a
> > common ancestor. Three (3) of these claim decent from John of Middlesex
> and
> > another has documented a decent from Shropshire England. The results do
> not
> > show who that common ancestor may be.
> >
> > There is a single person, #6281, who claims decent from John of
Middlesex
> whose
> > DNA results show he is NOT part of the above group. He is depicted on
the
> DNA
> > Results page as Group 1. The above four are depicted as Group 2.
> >
> > Who is to say which Group is TRULY descended from John of Middlesex?
> >
> > Is it not possible that #6281 is the only one TRULY descended from him?
> >
> > How strong is the evidence of the three (3) above who claim this decent?
> Is the
> > evidence for #6281 stronger?
> >
> > What happens when three (3) future participants fall into Group 1?
> >
> > Can we make any firm conclusions about his origins or lineage on so
small
> a
> > group?
> >
> >
> >
> > ==== PACE Mailing List ====
> > Check out the Pace GenConnect Boards where you can post or peruse Pace
> Bibles, Obits, Bios, Deeds, Wills, Queries, etc. Bookmark this URL:
> http://boards.ancestry.com
> >
>
>
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