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Archiver > PACE > 2003-05 > 1052184931


From: "Roy Johnson" <>
Subject: Re: [PACE-L] John of Middlesex
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 20:35:31 -0500
References: <p05200f01badcb5b43e9a@[204.255.238.130]>


There is no documentary evidence whatsoever for his birth. All dates given
are made up from someone's guesswork.

Several years ago, I placed the following on the Pace Network
=======================
Part A : Background and explanation (of the John Pace of Middlesex
controversy)
First, the background: We have this Pace line rather clearly established and
verified by historians and genealogists:

a.. Richard Pace, c. 1585 & Isabella Smythe c.1590, m. 1608. St. Dunstan's
Church, Stepney, England. Arrived Jamestown, VA bef 1616 prob about 1611
a.. George Pace, b. abt 1609, prob Wapping, England, & Sarah Maycock.
a.. Richard Pace, b. 1638, d. 1677, & Mary (Knowles? Baker?
controversy here), of Charles City County, VA, usually called Richard Pace
II by the Pace Society. (Click here for more on Knowles/Baker controversy.)
Seven children are listed for Richard and Mary: Richard Jr., Thomas, John,
George, James, Elizabeth, Ann, and Sarah. Richard Jr. and some other family
members (I am presently in the process of sorting all this out) moved to
Bertie Precinct, NC, which originally joined Surry County, VA, on the South.
Several records have been found in Bertie Precinct of a John Pace. His
descendents believe he is the son of Richard Pace II.

The problem is, the descendants of a John Pace of Middlesex County, VA, also
feel their ancestor was John, son of Richard II, and cite evidence in the
Pace Bulletin in support of this conclusion.

I am a descendent of John Pace of Middlesex County, but I am a historian by
profession (31 years a high school history teacher, with an M.A. and some
training in original research) , and a seeker of historical truth. I am very
interested in comparing the documentation for these conflicting claims, from
an objective point of view, NOT from trying to "prove" my own ancestry.

I have most of the "proofs" on John of Middlesex from the Pace Society
Bulletins. Here is an example, quoted word for word from PSB #8, June, 1968,
by Mrs. Mehrkens, Editor:

In the article "The Middlesex Line" Mrs. Mehrkens gives the deed of 1693 in
which John purchased land in Middlesex. This is the earliest record
currently known of John. Then she goes on to say:

"It is quite likely that John Pace was just of age (21) when he bought this
land. He was probably already living on it when he recorded the deed. He
must have married around June or July of this year 1693. If John was 21 in
1693, he must have been born in 1672. However, his birth is not recorded in
the Christ Church Register, which started as early as 1663. He may have been
born elsewhere."

In other articles, the formula that the person was "just of age" when the
first record was found is used to establish birth dates. For Joseph Pace,
she simply picked a date of birth for him. There is no record. The dates
1672 for John's birth and 1693 for his marriage have been treated as rock
hard fact in many family histories. As you can see, they are total
speculation. "Must have been", "probably", and "quite likely" are not
evidence.

From a historical point of view, there is not enough evidence to establish
this claim. The evidence for John of Bertie Precinct seems to me to be
stronger. Unfortunately, the lineage for John of Middlesex has been treated
as proven fact, and has found its way into numerous family listings,
including dozens of LDS submissions. This is bad genealogy and can only
result in the perpetuation of unproven assumptions posing as verified fact.

As I expand this document, I will include the "proofs" that I discover on
both sides of this question, and I invite anyone having any information to
submit it.

This fact jumps out, and as far as I know, has never been addressed in the
Pace Bulletins: ONE OF THESE JOHN PACES WAS NOT THE SON OF RICHARD II. SO
WHO WAS HE? Obviously there is a line of Paces that we know nothing about at
present. That line is either (a) a descent by a different line from Richard
of Jamestown (i.e., Richard's son George Pace had more than one child, and
we have no records on the others), or (b) a descent from an entirely
different line of Paces, not related to Richard of Jamestown.

=============
Well, it appears that the DNA evidence is helping us to arrive at a possible
answer tothat question. Looks like it was (b) at this point.

For more on this question, go to the Pace Network at
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~pace, scroll down to Problems and
Documents in Pace History, click on it and follow the links to the John of
Middlesex-John of Bertie Precinct discussion.

Roy Johnson

The first record we have on John is that he patented land in 1693. There is
absolutely nothing but guesswork before that.

Roy Johnson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Hartley" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 7:46 PM
Subject: [PACE-L] John of Middlesex


> I've seen the year 1667 given as the year of John's birth, but I'm
> not aware of how this date has been obtained. I've looked at my
> resources and find nothing that supports that date, or any date for
> that matter.
>
> Can someone enlighten me?
>
> Charlie
>
>
> ==== PACE Mailing List ====
> If you haven't done so within the last six months, please post a message
describing your Earliest Pace Ancestor and how you descend from them.
Please include dates, places, spouses, etc, if possible. Send the message
to
>
>

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