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Archiver > FINE > 2008-03 > 1206457955


From: Wanda Weatherford <>
Subject: Re: [FINE] Who has seen this: Johannes Fine
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <8CA5C9AD849DA3B-AA8-804@WEBMAIL-DC05.sysops.aol.com>


John,

I was not questioning the accuracy of the work, I just thought you might have something in your research that would help document my line.

Thanks, Wanda

wrote:
I never implied that this account wasn't full of discrepencies that need confirmation and correction. But, it is a framework to work from. The Revolutionary war record is pretty solid. We feel pretty positive Vinet's father was Thomas Fine. It is the identity of Thomas' father and grandfather that is in question. There have been genetic testing of descendants of Vinet Fine. If it hasn't been done, they should be compared to tests of other Fines who may have a more solid connection back to Johannes Fine (Fyn). Â

The New Market/Shenandoah reference is one reason I feel that Norfolk is not the town on the coast of Virginia, but North-fork.

Just for information: There is a loch on the west coast of Scotland named Loch Fyn. I have seen a map that names a village at the head of the loch and it is spelled Fine.   The largest Island in Denmark is named Fyn. Connections between these places and our family???

John Fine in Austin TX


-----Original Message-----
From: Breck Combs
To:
Sent: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 2:22 pm
Subject: Re: [FINE] Who has seen this: Johannes Fine



Has there been any DNA testing to prove whether Thomas Fine was descended from
ohannis Fyn?

This article mentions that Thomas and children were in both Newport and New
arket.Has anyone found records of the mariage of Vinet Fine to Effie McElwain
n 1771 in Norfolk, Virginia.

I also note that (in paragraph four) that it mentions that John Fine "lived on
he waters of the Shenandoah River by New Market." That statement is in between
wo references to Long Island, New York.

Breck Combs
wrote:
Just found this on the net: It seems to be the connection between Johannes
ine and Thomas Fine, father of Phillip, Vinet, John, Ephemeus, etc. Â
One note: I do not believe that Norfolk is the city in Virginia, but is instead,
he north-fork of the Shenandoah river valley.Â
Enjoy:
Fine Family: 1698- 1781
Â
The Fine name was brought to England from those that left Fiennes,
as-de-Calais, Normandy after the Norman Conquest in 1066. Name was first found
n Kent where they served as: Lords of the Manor, Lords of the Cinque Ports, and
onstables of Dover Castle. Some of the first American settlers with this name
ere: Richard Fine who sailed to Virginia in 1624. Charles and Thomas Fiennes
ho sailed to Salem, MA in 1630. The Fine motto is: "Fortem possee animum,"
eaning "Wish for a strong mind."
In the 1660’s, the Fyn family was already living in modern day, Queens County,
Y. In 1670, Johannis Fyn was born in 1670 in Newton, Long Island, New York to
ester Jans and Jan Janszen Fyn. Five years later, they lost their daughter
ester Fyn during childbirth. The next year, they had another son, Jacob, who
urvived to adulthood. Around twenty-four years old, Johannes married Hannah
erschuer, in the estimated year of 1694. Two years later, they had a daughter
amed Hester Fyn in Bushwyck, Brooklynn, NY.
On October 16, 1698, Johannis Fyn lived in NY amid a population of about 8,000
20 % slaves). That year, the British Whig party sponsored Captain Kidd (an
nfamous cruel and bloody pirate) as a privateer against the French shipping in
ew York. Also, Issac Newton calculated the speed of sound that year. The
The following year, Johannis and Hannah had a son named John Fine (also known as
an Fyn) on May 18 1699. Johannis Fyn bought 75 acres from Dorthy Versueir of
ushwick in Newton. The Fine family was part of a settlement in Hempstead, Long
sland in 1700. He lived on the waters of the Shenandoah River by New Market. At
hat time, New York provided the lumber and food for British Sugar Colonies in
he Carribbean and was the center of sugar refining.
He worked as blacksmith. As a blacksmith, he created objects from iron or steel
y "forging" the metal (using hand tools to hammer, bend, cut and otherwise
hape it in its non-liquid form). Usually he heated the metal until it glowed
ed or orange as part of the forging process. Johannis created such products as
rought iron gates, furniture, sculpture, tools, decorative and religious items,
ooking utensils and weapons.
he men from this area were angry about taxation without representation.
Johannis Fyn and Hannah Verschuer had at least six children of their own and are
hought to have adopted two more. There names were Hester, John, Dorothy,
annatje, Susannah, Leeana Catharine, Wlater, and Henry. (The last two thought
o be adopted.) In 1707 he lived in New York City, NY.
On Dec 23, 1714, he wrote a will that was left his belongings to his family and
riends. Mentioned in his will was his wife Hannah, five daughters (Hester,
orothy, Hannah, Susanah, and Leena Catharine) and three sons (John, Wouter
Walter), and Henry). He also left belongings to his cousin, Anthony Glean and a
riend, Peter Remsen. He likely died sometime within the year. He died, never
eaving the state of New York, in the modern town of Newton Long Island, Queens,
Y. Johannes’s brother, Jacob, died shortly thereafter. At this time, John was
oing by John Fine and not Jan Fyn. In Elmhurst, Queens, New York, it is
ecorded that John Fine married a "Massah Skilman". The wife’s name should
ave been spelled Mercy Skillman, but was written as the name was pronounced.
en months after the marriage of John and Mercy, on April of 1723, John and
ercy had a girl named Antje in Jamaica, Long Island, New York.
In 1725, Johannis’s surviving family was living in Monmouth Junction, New
ersey. His son, John Fine, married before 1725 in New Jersey to Mercy Skillman.
e probably lived in a Swedish build log cabin, common of the New Jersey area.
n 1725, Johannis’s son, John Fine, fathered a son named Thomas Fine within
he year of their marriage. John died in 1739 in Flatbush, Queens, NY, before
itnessing his daughter Antje marry.
Thomas witnessed the emergence of factories that produced textiles in 1740, the
team engine, guns with interchangable parts, and mass production of products.
homas Fine married Agnes Merchant.
Two years after his sister Antje was married, Thomas Fine, moved to Norfolk, Va
n 1750 with his family where he had a son named, Vinet Fine. His father’s
ecent death the year before could have been a deciding factor in his discussion
o move. Thomas and Agnes had the following children in Norfolk, Virginia:
inet, Andres, Thomas II, Philip, Peter, John, Weden, Euphenus, Elizabeth,
acob, and David.
The family moved to the Shenandoah Valley, VA in 1766 while other Norfolk
itizens were organizing the Sons of Liberty and protesting against the Stamp
ct. The Continental Congress approves Declaration of Independence and the
merican Revolution begins. Vinet was married in Norfolk, VA in 1771. Three
ears later, Vinet’s brother, John married Grace Welch Lockhart. The wedding
as outshined by the chatter of the colonies going to war with England.
iron or steel by "forging" the metal (using hand tools to hammer, bend, cut and
therwise shape it in its non-liquid form). Usually he heated the metal until it
lowed red or orange as part of the forging process. Johannis created such
roducts as wrought iron gates, furniture, sculpture, tools, decorative and
eligious items, cooking utensils and weapons.
he men from this area were angry about taxation without representation.
Johannis Fyn and Hannah Verschuer had at least six children of their own and are
hought to have adopted two more. There names were Hester, John, Dorothy,
annatje, Susannah, Leeana Catharine, Wlater, and Henry. (The last two thought
o be adopted.) In 1707 he lived in New York City, NY.
On Dec 23, 1714, he wrote a will that was left his belongings to his family and
riends. Mentioned in his will was his wife Hannah, five daughters (Hester,
orothy, Hannah, Susanah, and Leena Catharine) and three sons (John, Wouter
Walter), and Henry). He also left belongings to his cousin, Anthony Glean and a
riend, Peter Remsen. He likely died sometime within the year. He died, never
eaving the state of New York, in the modern town of Newton Long Island, Queens,
Y. Johannes’s brother, Jacob, died shortly thereafter. At this time, John was
oing by John Fine and not Jan Fyn. In Elmhurst, Queens, New York, it is
ecorded that John Fine married a "Massah Skilman". The wife’s name should
ave been spelled Mercy Skillman, but was written as the name was pronounced.
en months after the marriage of John and Mercy, on April of 1723, John and
ercy had a girl named Antje in Jamaica, Long Island, New York.
In 1725, Johannis’s surviving family was living in Monmouth Junction, New
ersey. His son, John Fine, married before 1725 in New Jersey to Mercy Skillman.
e probably lived in a Swedish build log cabin, common of the New Jersey area.
n 1725, Johannis’s son, John Fine, fathered a son named Thomas Fine within
he year of their marriage. John died in 1739 in Flatbush, Queens, NY, before
itnessing his daughter Antje marry.
Thomas witnessed the emergence of factories that produced textiles in 1740, the
team engine, guns with interchangable parts, and mass production of products.
homas Fine married Agnes Merchant.
Two years after his sister Antje was married, Thomas Fine, moved to Norfolk, Va
n 1750 with his family where he had a son named, Vinet Fine. His father’s
ecent death the year before could have been a deciding factor in his discussion
o move. Thomas and Agnes had the following children in Norfolk, Virginia:
inet, Andres, Thomas II, Philip, Peter, John, Weden, Euphenus, Elizabeth,
acob, and David.
The family moved to the Shenandoah Valley, VA in 1766 while other Norfolk
itizens were organizing the Sons of Liberty and protesting against the Stamp
ct. The Continental Congress approves Declaration of Independence and the
merican Revolution begins. Vinet was married in Norfolk, VA in 1771. Three
ears later, Vinet’s brother, John married Grace Welch Lockhart. The wedding
as outshined by the chatter of the colonies going to war with England.
Concerned with British, Vinet and his brothers Andres, John, Peter, and Philip
oined the militia with their father, Thomas Fine Sr. and were in the First
ndependent Company of Dunmore of 1775 and 8th Virginia Regiment. They served
nder Captain Jacob Holeman. The regiment was known as the "German Regiment."
hey signed a document that said, "Impressed with a deep sense of the present
ruly alarming situtation of American affairs and the precarious stte we are in,
ccassioned by the repeated encroachments which Britain has made, on those
iberties, to which as free born subjects and by charter, we are so justly
ntitled and willing as much as lies in our power to assist our brethern on this
ontinent who have so nobly stood forthe indefence of our Liberties. And
onfident that a well regulated militia is the surest defence of every state. We
he subscribers, inhabitants of the County of Dunmore and Colony of Virginia
mbody ourselves in one Company, to be called the first Independent Company of
unmore, and do bind ourselves by all ties of Honor and love to our country. and
he words of Gentlemen to adhere strictly to such resolves which shall be
ntered into by a Majority of the Company---" They were proud to be fighting in
he American Revolution.
Thomas and Agnes must have been very proud of their children, because the lot of
hem turned out to be quiet important in the military and leaders in the
ommunity.
After Vinet married Effie McElwain in 1771 in Norfolk, VA. They had Thomas Fine
hortly thereafter in the Shenandoah Valley, VA. Six years after the couple was
arried, they had Sarah and Abraham. They had four more children: Phoebe in
778, William in 1781, Charles in 1782, and Issac in 1783.
In Octobter of 1773, Vinet went to see his brother, Peter marry Rebecca Stats
oliday in Virginia.
Around 1777, the brothers were discharged from the army. Vinet’s brother,
hilip was discharged on Dec 21, 1777, just in time to have Christmas with his
amily.
Before 1783, Vinet’s brother, John Fine with wife Grace, left New Market,
irginia for East Tennessee.
Â

hey signed a document that said, "Impressed with a deep sense of the present
ruly alarming situtation of American affairs and the precarious stte we are in,
ccassioned by the repeated encroachments which Britain has made, on those
iberties, to which as free born subjects and by charter, we are so justly
ntitled and willing as much as lies in our power to assist our brethern on this
ontinent who have so nobly stood forthe indefence of our Liberties. And
onfident that a well regulated militia is the surest defence of every state. We
he subscribers, inhabitants of the County of Dunmore and Colony of Virginia
mbody ourselves in one Company, to be called the first Independent Company of
unmore, and do bind ourselves by all ties of Honor and love to our country. and
he words of Gentlemen to adhere strictly to such resolves which shall be
ntered into by a Majority of the Company---" They were proud to be fighting in
he American Revolution.
Thomas and Agnes must have been very proud of their children, because the lot of
hem turned out to be quiet important in the military and leaders in the
ommunity.
After Vinet married Effie McElwain in 1771 in Norfolk, VA. They had Thomas Fine
hortly thereafter in the Shenandoah Valley, VA. Six years after the couple was
arried, they had Sarah and Abraham. They had four more children: Phoebe in
778, William in 1781, Charles in 1782, and Issac in 1783.
In Octobter of 1773, Vinet went to see his brother, Peter marry Rebecca Stats
oliday in Virginia.
Around 1777, the brothers were discharged from the army. Vinet’s brother,
hilip was discharged on Dec 21, 1777, just in time to have Christmas with his
amily.
Before 1783, Vinet’s brother, John Fine with wife Grace, left New Market,
irginia for East Tennessee.
Â


lso this is a link to the wedding vest of my Gr-grandfather John Calvin Fine.
hotos the vest and of J. C. and Eliza Noakes Fiine.
http://www.springdaleark.org/shiloh/collections/wedding_vest.htm

John Fine
ustin, TX
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